[Discussion] - Improvement of the auction system for Ceres hardfork

recently thought about this topic again. there is no clear date for Ceres, but I would still like to have the topic covered somehow.

what is the general sentiment, should the auction system be changed according to the aspects mentioned above?

  • generally lower the time for the auction end and have a fixed frame of e.g. 480 keyblocks until the auction would end
  • bump of the timer on new bids only in a certain frame of keyblocks (e.g. 3 keyblocks)

I think it would be super cool to be able to have enforced voting on those parameters in the future so that no hard fork would be required if there is a general consensus that it should be changed. not sure if this would be a viable option for Ceres though (cc @hanssv.chain)

shall I open a poll? or do we want to track the sentinment on the thread only? :slight_smile:

1 Like

I鈥檇 suggest to open a poll here first of all to see if there is an interest for a change of the auction system in general

1 Like

Shall we have a fixed AENS auction time? (e.g. 480 keyblocks ~24 hours)

Please comment your opinion if you choose 鈥淵es鈥.

  • Yes
  • No

0 voters

Shall the AENS auction time only be bumped in a short time-window before the auction ends? (e.g. 3 keyblocks ~9 minutes)

Let the auction finish in a real end-phase. This would mainly be important to not get distracted too much, having to check again the next day or even later.

Please comment your opinion if you choose 鈥淵es鈥.

  • Yes
  • No

0 voters

Shall the AENS auction price increase be adjusted?

Please comment your opinion if you choose 鈥淵es鈥.

  • Yes
  • No

0 voters

Shall there be a governance mechanism to vote and apply changes to the AENS auction params without having to wait for a hardfork?

Please comment your opinion if you choose 鈥淵es鈥.

This certainly also needs to be commented by the core devs :slight_smile:

  • Yes
  • No

0 voters

I voted and made my points already clear above. I think there is definitely an adjustment needed.

In regards to the governance mechanism to change params without having to wait for a hardfork. I think this would be cool to have, but I don鈥檛 think it鈥檚 urgently needed right now. Probably more important topics to be covered by the core devs :slight_smile:

1 Like

I voted, and my ideas should also already be represented above, but TLDR: Yes, shorter auctions is a good idea, I would probably divide the length in three groups short (2-6 characters), medium (7-12 characters), and long (13- characters). No auction for long names, like 2 days for medium names and maybe 5 days for short names. Bump the auction time up to about an hour (20 generations?) if there is a bid closer to the end of the auction.

2 Likes

I am also fine with that. just shouldn鈥檛 be a month or even more. few days are ok I think.

I think I remember we discussed a short period for the bumping already somehow. I just have a fear that people get distracted and thus very frustrated if they have to wait for a long time period for the auction to finish as they might miss the opportunity to place a new bid if they do not have a bidding service running for them.

what鈥檚 the risk / downside with a small bump time of e.g. 3 keyblocks again? :thinking:

The opposite of getting distracted, i.e. that you don鈥檛 have time to react (can be mitigated by tools to a large extent). Generations don鈥檛 have fixed length, and 3 generations could happen in a minute鈥 Also the discussion on finality - but forks of length 3 are not common, agreed.

Also you don鈥檛 have to wait until the last generation to overbid :sweat_smile:

that鈥檚 not the point. I am more worried about people not noticing outbids as they move away (from) the phone / tablet / desktop. you need to wait for the auction to finally end. you want to know if you won the auction or if somebody outbids you.

forks could certainly happen but that鈥檚 also sth. for tools to support the user in such cases. in worst case the auction ended without noticing and some other party winning it :sweat_smile:

I can only repeat.

yani.chain
contributor
I don鈥檛 see any problem with the timeframes nor with the pricing. If people want to get a short name quick they can put a very high initial bid so that nobody wants to start a bidding war with them because it feels already overpriced. If people want to get started quick they can select a bit longer name like alexanderthegreat and get it instantly. Short names should be difficult to get by design to prevent squatting. I also don鈥檛 see a problem with the price being driven up to the max amount people are willing to pay for a name since the fee gets burned and this way the total AE supply gets reduced effectively acting as a donation to the aeternity community.

As an alternative we could create another namespace like 鈥.space鈥 to have very cheap short instant domain names. Could also be solved with an establishment of a new naming prefix and as well introduction of syntax for this, like 鈥渟hortnames鈥攁lex.chain鈥 or 鈥渁___l___e___x.chain鈥 could be translated to alex.space so that even no hard fork is required for this, just some UX work. More 鈥.TLDs鈥 could be introduced this way. And it is backwards compatible.

A marketplace for the dot chain names would great as well! There people could buy instantly short dot chain names. But introduction of a new name space and addition to the existing UX should be the quickest way to solve the problem perceived by some of the users. Which .namespace do you suggest?

Let鈥檚 not change anything about the auction mechanism without that it is not absolutely needed. Better create another namespace with whatever rules you want. Open source rocks.

2 Likes

@yani.chain but there are people that think it is needed :thinking:

at least the bumping of auctions for another 3 months on each bid should be re-considered IMO. but if this is being touched we might be able to make a few more improvements.

I thought you were also supporting this back then. I just checked the initial discussion on github:

it is not a year. but a last minute bid could currently cause an extension of the auction for ~ 3 months. this sounds really crazy to me and makes the auction mechanism for short names quite unnattractive.

2 Likes

meanwhile @hanssv.chain provided a PR to change the behavior :slight_smile:

I asked about the params and currently the PR sets:

  1. auction duration of 5 days (2-4 characters names), 2 days (5-8 characters), 1 day (9-12 characters)
  2. a general bump to 12 hours auction time in case the remaining time is shorther than 12 hours

is that correct @hanssv.chain or did I missunderstand sth. in regards to the 鈥渂ump鈥 time? of course all time-related stuff is measured in keyblocks on protocol level which means it can vary

personally I think a bump to ~30mins (10 keyblocks) would be better. I would even favor maximum ~15mins (5 keyblocks) for the bump.

for the initial auction time I am fine with the params that are currently set.

the question is how we define the exact params now. maybe just via forum vote? :grin:

nobody will be able to react to this, if its not needed it can be removed, I think 48-24h is an absolute minumum.

1 Like

everybody watches the end of an auction or uses an automated tool to bid until their personal max-price is reached.

having async auctions in terms of time is nonsense to me. this is why I think it should be as short as possible. having to look at the same auction every now and then to finally see it settled kind of sucks. I am really wondering how you come to the conclusion that nobody can react to this

note: I hope it is clear enough that the initial auction time will never be less than ~24hours (according to the current params set). I am referring to the actual expected end of an auction.

Yes @marco.chain your description looks on point to me. I am with @philipp.chain on this one, 12h which I set is an absolute minimum in my eyes. Automatic tools are great, but we need to give humans a fair chance to react WHEN the tools break :sweat_smile:

1 Like

this is exactly what I want to achieve. nobody wants to check the end of an auction every 12 hours. humans get distracted if it takes too long. auction-ends are typically happening in a very short time period. I am really wondering where your point of views are coming from :sweat_smile:

I think we should more discuss which events you expect to happen that would hinder 鈥渉umans鈥 to react within 5 keyblocks. I would say in 99,99% of the cases 3 keyblocks should even be enough time to react.

but anyway, I am fine with everything. I just want to see the auction system improved in general what we (almost) achieved now :sweat_smile:

Not everyone is in the same time zone, so 15 minutes would be a bit awkward I think鈥 But let鈥檚 just agree to disagree here :joy:

2 Likes

I think we have a complete different understanding about how auctions work.

if I wanna watch a UFC fight or a formula 1 race I stand up to be watching (or participating in) the event live (human) early or I record it (bot) to make sure I can watch it.

same for the end of an auction :man_shrugging:

so yes, let鈥檚 agree to disagree :rofl:

1 Like

agree to disagree. I think core developers should be working on reducing the rolling checkpoint time and launching hyperchains and decentralization instead of changing the economics of the naming system. I find it a big blocker for adoption of aeternity mainnet to wait for 100 blocks so that transactions are considered confirmed. with bitcoin its usually 30 minutes wait time. what is planned to improve this? other ceres improvements?

1 Like

I think we all agree on this. at least I for myself can confirm this is a big blocker for adoption

aens is only a small number of domain name holders such as Dashu in China have a strong demand; They want to sell their domain names. I don鈥檛 know why the team took the time to improve this? Aren鈥檛 core functions and hyperlinks more important? How long has the hyperchain been delayed; The hyperchain release promise has been delayed銆

Blockquote

1 Like