It is supposed to serve as an example, I don’t force anyone to use it as framework, nor advertise it as such, it can be adapted by community for this purpose though.
I’ll ignore other parts of the post as they are off-topic for this discussion.
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this doesn’t make sense in my opinion. ethereum has specific contracts - mostly provided by chainlink - that can handle input of real world data. in æternity this is part of the protocol - so we already have a standardized way how to interact with oracles.
what I meant is that somebody could integrate chainlink so that chainlink data providers can listen to oracle requests happening on æternity and respond to them. but the more I am writing about this the more I think this also doesn’t make sense.
the question here is how data aggregation on chainlink is happening - haven’t had a deep look into that yet. I guess this is being done through smart contracts and then there wouldn’t be any advantage for æternity developers to integrate chainlink. in fact this can easily be done using æternity oracles.
superhero already shows how this can be done.
I really like this. hopefully I will find some time to dig in deeper into this. maybe we can showcase this using a smart contract on the testnet with a set of trusted oracles and provide a UI like chainlink did (https://feeds.chain.link/eth-usd)
if adoption kicks in and enough interest is there we could move that to mainnet
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I like this Idea.
Actually one more usecase could be , in SSI the DID’s can be verified cross chain.
Like I can verify a DID of Soverin network perhaps via Ae Oracles.
I could be wrong also 
thanks 
Secure messaging between different DIDs (that can live on different ledgers) using different protocols is all what Hyperledger Aries is about. It’s more about the DID method that specifies how to handle it.
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Nothing more to add, agree fully with every word
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Hey phillip, i dont think that post was aimed at you, i think you did great to post some examples and did good effort.
I think what people are trying to say is ae should now stop with core development and start developing dapps that can showcase ae and that can draw users. No point in keeping improving something that has no users, need to get the users.
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this is probably your view. so I would mention it like that. I don’t agree with this statement. I think core development is important and if we lose the core developers this project is probably dead.
I personally would rather say that the things aeternity is building (whatever it is) should be well thought, executed and promoted. except for superhero this has never been the case IMO. and even for superhero there is room for improvement (explanation, promotion, …)
bad examples are more or less all demos that have been developed for state channels (coin toss, coin flip, …) and of course the “aeternity playground”. I don’t wanna know how much time was “wasted” here
one problem for “regular aepps” is that only a small group of people in the community seem to be developers and even those don’t apply for grants of the crypto foundation. so it seems like the only option we have is to hope that the things built by the team will drive adoption or that some of the starfleet projects gain traction.
in fact everybody could build aepps on top of aeternity - but for some reason nobody wants to do that.
but again, this is my personal view about that. for this reason it would be cool to have a running example for a price feed with aggregation running on testnet and hosted by the team/foundation. people must see what can be done and need a detailed explanation how this is working on a real example.
after ~2 months of superhero we have 211 users (“unique tip senders”) which include all beta testers and users that are already part of the community. this is basically no adoption at all. I hope this will change - but here we need people of the community to promote this platform @Whyarewehere42.chain @swift
the cool thing about superhero is that it showcases how oracles are working and this is awesome. but again, nobody knows it and nobody seems to care … for those who care and want to know how it works under the hood I recommend to read https://kryptokrauts.com/log/superhero-a-truly-decentralized-social-tipping-platform
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Yes of course what we’re doing here is discussing opinions. That’s the only thing we CAN do. However, one of them has evidence on its side - the evidence that when the focus is only on core development (like it is now) - with no serious ‘regular aepp’ or ‘community expansion’ done (like now) - It. Does. Not. Happen (like now for more than a year).
“in fact everybody could build aepps on top of aeternity - but for some reason nobody wants to do that.” - yes, because it’s a ‘chicken before the egg’ sort of a thing - and the AE leaders for some reason believe that the chicken will just evolve by itself from some protoplasmic goo. You need to make some little chickens so that they start running around making babies.
And DEMOS are not where it’s at - nobody cares about demos - you need functional programs that DO USEFUL THINGS. Does the leadership of AE have anyone onboard who’s actually successfully developed a project? This is just such an amateur mistake that’s being done - so stubbornly and so ‘head on the wall’ knocking. For close to a year now - just dreaming that ‘people will come and start building!’
Starfleet projects aren’t gaining traction - because they’re being done by start-up programmers without any serious support. Core development IS important - but where’s proof that ‘if core developers get re-targeted for a few months on making a few awesome AEpps’ - ‘this project is probably dead.’ That’s a huge stretch and supposition.
There is no adoption. NONE. Why is AE not doing anything to try to fix that?
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I never said that core developers should start working on aepps. I want to clarify on that one. I personally support core development and if I personally notice that core development isn’t done anymore I will consider this project myself as dead and move on. in fact I am waiting for the new Sophia capabilities which would enable us to build an AENS marketplace and the incentivized name extender application. also I am waiting for the new middleware to replace aeternal - which should hopefully be the case in the upcoming weeks
demos are useful if they reflect a real usecase and if they are well documented and described
what is superhero in your opinion?
unfortunatelly I must 100% agree
Agree that advancement of core functionality is needed. All I am saying is that - it must NOT be the only goal of the core team - with a hope/dream that ‘community expansion’ will happen with a few token gestures and without continuous work.
Superhero was developed. Great. IF it was being modified/advanced/improved (for example, I gave a suggestion for its improvement about 3 months ago - it was neither discussed nor addressed) and IF there was a ‘okay this is what’s next’ community-outreach program that was visible - at least a single AEpp under core development - I would be a lot less incensed.
Since we all agree that there’s absolutely no adoption - we should be discussing what can be done to get that started! My off top of head ideas:
- have a separate thread where a discussion of a ‘killer AEpp’ is conducted - to then be built by the core team
- airdrop. When’s that supposed to happen?
- Distributed Finance - how can already extant dApps be incentivized to move to AEternity? Can a “if you move to AE we’ll give you 10,000 tokens” be a thing?
- Distributed Finance examples/oracles/more serious projects developed
Yes - anybody can do it but you may experience a lot of pain and give up if you’re not persevering.
I’ve written Ethereum Dapps before - it was a nice experience as a newcomer, didn’t have any bigger hiccups and even twice made workshops about it for high school students.
When I’ve wanted to port one of my Dapps to Aeternity the amount of pain which I’ve experienced was immense. Don’t get me wrong - I like many things in the AE ecosystem, there are things about ETH which I like to rant about which don’t affect AE at all. Things are changing - the AE ecosystem is constantly improving but last time when I’ve tried Aepp development was still not easily approachable for newcommers compared to ETH - Might give it another try in my free time to see if it became more approachable due to @nikitafuchs.chain aestudio 
My problems about Aepp development when I’ve last tried:
- No debugger for smart contracts - I think @radrow.chain can voice his thoughts here
- I’ve crashed the compiler…
- The SDK sends http requests for encoding/decoding data - in aestudio there is a noticable delay due to this even for dry runs
- No chain simulator - manual testing is hard compared to remix, you can test only after deploying the contract to testnet
- Deploying the contract is the easy part - back then wallet integration caused me many headaches - perhaps this changed with superhero wallet.
- aeproject is slow compared to the ETH counterparts - have we deprecated this project?
- …
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@gorbak25 actually I have waited for someone like you to mention such experiences. totally agree that the developer experience has room for improvement. but if nobody builds on top of aeternity and advices the team with the problems this won’t change. but I assume that the devs of Superhero already collected some things that need to be improved. at least I hope so
this is the reason I want to see a full demo as an example with a walkthrough guide. similar to what angular for example provided with the “tour of heroes”. should be enough for an experienced developer to get started then.
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Hi everybody,
If I understand the discussion well, there is an important criticism of the lack of real products on the market developed with Aeternity, it is true that the learning curve of Aeternity is a bit chaotic because the documentation has been somewhat scattered, although I must admit that it is improving slowly.
On the other hand, in Valencia, Venezuela, we have a team of people led by @ivanubikalo.chain focused on generating real solutions for the market.
I invite you to know Cash-Flag (www.cash-flag.com), a real project, not a demo, we currently have a minimum viable product with a hybrid application that we are migrating to Aeternity, we aspire to be 100% in production at the beginning of the This year’s 4Q, we are developing it in Valencia, Venezuela where we have a strategic plan to generate real applications with real products based on Aeternity.
We also have another local project led by @rookielector named Reservo and we are training developers to grow the team.
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Indeed, in Valencia Venezuela, as indicated by Mr. Luis Rodriguez of @sgcvzla.chain , several entrepreneurs have undertaken the task of developing applications under the AEternity platform, where Cash-Flag is a pioneer, being the first materialized project. I congratulate its leaders and we will continue in the task of contributing to the ecosystem.
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I like this thread so far, at least we are talking and forming ideas. And i think both sides of the argument has valid points.
I like superhero, great project but needs users.
Will follow cash flag.
Lets keep on talking and keep the ideas flowing.
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in fact everybody could build aepps on top of aeternity - but for some reason nobody wants to do that.
To quickly touch on that. The ‘some reason’ is painfully and logically clear. Normal not-hero not-dreamer developers want to work on projects that will for sure be used by a lot of people. They only want to build aepps that they see having the likelyhood to succeed. Just the ‘bells and whistles and the promise’ of the network are enough for you, for me, and for 10 other guys. The other thousand - they need proof.
If the AE leadership keeps bumping their head at the invisible ceiling, expecting developers just to magically ‘believe’ and ‘dream’ and ‘embrace the future’… well, we’ll be here talking about improving things for another year… And then ETH2.0 will come and nobody will care.
The AEpp landscape needs to be kick-started/populated by the internal team. That’s so obvious, it f*ckin hurts - the other approach has been tried for a year now! Proof is in the silent world around us - and in the 2 (5 when it gets hot!) posts a day on this newsgroup.
Also full-scale (with $ rewards, with targeted REACHING OUT, not just post on own Twitter page with slogans) advertisement campaign - giving bounties and rewards and actual reasons for people to port their already functioning dApps onto this medium needs to happen.
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@gorbak25
About your problems:
1. You’ve got my sword
2. Post an issue in the aesophia repo please
4. REPL is going to be integrated to aestudio and it will hopefully partially solve this problem. We can add some automation tools to it then
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We’ll be releasing the Oracle FAQ soon, but the general idea is that multiple people independently report median prices for ETH and MKR to the Medianizer contract which then takes a median of these reported prices and publishes a reference price that the system uses,
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that’s cool