How does voting work then?

PoS On-Chain Governance
#22

Not really your opinion anymore tho.

I asked what were the restrictions, participation amount, requirements, follow up, rules, something. and I was told nothing. I was told to create a poll. and I did. that is my poll. and it has 0.03% participation, sure, but you have nowhere specified the amount needed to succed, and it is an overwhelming 96% in favor, and not even divided into the other options.

So, is it now clear what I was asking? You can’t have a glorified polling app and call it governance without setting a set of rules.

I just proved, in practice, that this is not a governance app. it is just a polling app, and for that matters I prefer to use anything other than this, strawpoll, dolibarr, twitter, instagram, anything is better than this and all of them have the same effect since there is no clear way to affect the “governance” aspect of it.

Can I now, please, have a clear sets of rules so I know how many votes are required to get anything done that was voted for in aeternity’s governance aepp?

I hate quoting myself, but I did ask it, directly, and clearly. What if it is less than 1%?

And I got no answer, you olympically ignored it, and now you are saying: “Oh yes, 0.03% is not enough” Well, I knew there was not gonna be that much participation because the community is too busy or does not care, but I asked and you told me to go make a poll anyways. and said it works as governance. Now I want to see it working as governance. It is its name after all.

At least other networks have a clear stablished ruleset that considers the amount to invest, the number of possitive votes, the number of negative votes and a lot more participation. But if any and all participation is gonna be ignored, then what is the point of participating?

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Are there any plans to airdrop on Bitcoin holders？
#23

Dont think anyone minds rules, just would like to know what the rules are upfront. So who in the ae team are in charge of the governance aspect so that they can make or stipulate rules as to what constitutes a successful vote. No use having voting if its not set out clearly. So can you point the community to whom we should ask to make rules and guidelines. Thanks

#24

@albena.chain Did you say you wanted to be tagged in any post not responded, that ignored the point, or that went unsolved? There you go.
@yani.chain not sure if you are the “aegodfather” in telegram, but I’m tagging you as well.

And I was told 10% votes could land me the “Real CEO of Aeternity” (certainly as a joke). But people {can’t/don’t want to} vote. And why would they? it is not like voting has any effect.

#25

您这个帖子非常好，但是团队有意在逃避这个话题，所以我觉的您不会得到答案，毕竟AE只是团队的AE，不是社区的AE ,不需要治理。

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#26

I can say I agree with this, and I don’t even speak chinese.

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#27

我只是不习惯写英语，同时也为一个没有自动翻译的官方论坛感到悲观！团队每天、每周或者每月都在开会，或者投资项目，但是这些项目最后有几个能发展成功。比如，①WEIDEX这个基于AE主网的去中心化社区，整整两年时间都没有开发出来 ②governance aepp到现在没有任何规则③给每个项目投资多少钱，到底是根据什么定，团队的这些不作为行为已经体现在AE的价格…所以不要对这样的团队抱有任何做出改变的希望，其实也不要在论坛上发表质疑团队的言论，因为团队不仅会踢皮球，而且会删帖。

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#28

I agree with @philipp.chain
@Kryztoval I suggest you restart your vote with better explanation and better “marketing” to make it more popular. you can’t force people to spend time with non-sense votes with the gov-aepp. thats not the point of it. to become “CEO of ae”, maybe first put up a vote of what exactly the person should become CEO (since decentralized blockchains like AE don’t have CEOs), and how much percentage the CEO should get from the votes and get the community excited to vote. anything below 1% should be disregarded, but this is my opinion.

everyone with AE can initiate votes and governance decisions.

A governance decision is successful, after clear vote, implementation, release and then being mined by the miners and adopted by its users. governance can occasionally lead in hardforks when it is not clear what to do and it is better go down two paths. this fortunately has never happened with AE.

governance is complex and the AE team did show you how it can work already last year, but it takes more time than just writing down a rant in a vote.

if some of you guys here think, that AE is for the AE team only and not for you, please sell your AE and leave space for others who value what has been build and achieved with aeternity blockchain. the chinese people above also really never want to follow even the forum community rules. how can you expect them to follow any governance decisions? why don’t you guys go somewhere where you can talk in chinese all day if you don’t want to talk english here and just write bullshit in chinese? community members who just have demands all the time and never do anything of value are just poison for the community. why are you here guys?

#29

@yani.chain Don’t be affected by these noises, please keep going. I see that the Chinese community is working hard, and the AE blockchain still has a bright future.

#30

I made and maintain the telegram bot, I made my own middleware which, mind you, was the first middleware to have an integrated explorer because it just “made sense”, also a no non-sense explorer purely done in html and javascript. First to implement the paging into the queries and optimize it. I have found and reported several hangs on the official middleware and the node before being openly reported. I also made a vanity address generetor and described the aechat funcitonality a year ago. Because of all of this I know the part that says “community members who just have demands all the time and never do anything of value are just poison for the community” does not include me even when it seems like you would love for me to just follow suit and accept things the way they are.

I am not just ranting for the fun of it, but your comebacks are even worse than my rants. “anything below 1% should be disregarded, but this is my opinion.” as far as opinion goes then your opinion is as good as mine. I have reasons behind the things I have asked and at least I pay attention to the things people comment regarding that and try to understand their points even if I disagree instead of just repeating over and over that “it works”.

“you can’t force people to spend time with non-sense votes”, yeah you should listen to yourself, you should not start rising fees and taking unilateral decisions just with a few votes. But hey, you have! I don’t remember a voting about the fees, or the inflation curve, or many other things. Yet the post about the rising of the fees was misteriously removed, well, made private.

And the point remains, there are 0 pools that have resulted in governance changes in the “governance aepp”. So you have not proven anything. In fact, I propose you the opposite, why are you making me make a poll and make it work? you do it. You make a poll, you promote it, you see how many votes you get, then we can use that as a base for what is gonna be taken as a consideration factor from there on?

Which is, incidentally what i have been asking since the start: what is considered a successful vote? how do you track it? who implements it? etc… it all comes back to this.

And no, the BRI vote which is the only successful vote that has been casted does not count ecause it was done before the Governance AEpp existed.

So, @yani.chain are you up to back up your words and make yourself a governance poll?

2 Likes
#31

I think you are missing the point. Forget about people ranting or not or being positive or negative. At the end of the day if you filter out all the noise then its really straight forward.

The thread started two months ago asking a simple question and not being negative. What it sought to do was get clarity on how governance voting works and what the rules are, nothing more and nothing less.

It is not a loaded question. It is exactly what it asks. And when the question gets answered and the rules are layed out, then the question will fall away.

Things only become heated and topics of debate when left in limbo and unanswered.

#32

Then someone says: well, it had less than 1% participation, so it can’t be considered. Sure, but did YOU participate? no? so you are partly to blame in that low participation.

You can see the poll got what? 96% aproval rate? And the poll had 0.03% interaction, which is 88% more stake than the highest poll in the app. And it is still 50% more relative stake.

Again, and just as a clarification: I don’t want the voting in the poll to be done, my intention is not to force the poll to be done.

What I am trying to show you and force is a clear set of rules that go something like: A poll must be open for at least 30 days, it must have at least 1% of stakes in a single answer to be considered, the poll must follow the vision and objectives of aeternity, if it is technically impossible at least a paper or a group will be open to explain in technical detail why it can’t be done.

Something like this would have been awesome, some flexible but understandable guidelines. I’m disruptive, I know this. I see a flaw and I try to mend it as soon as I can. If I come and tell you there is a flaw and you ignore me I will try to make it blow up so you realize there is a flaw and mend it.

@yani.chain I love AE, I love the project, I have never been more excited about a count ever. I was so excited when you guys launched the invest phase I dropped 0.5btc immediately, and I was thinking: This could be a scam, but if it is not a scam then this is gonna be a great coin and technologically sound. And here we are, AE is not a scam and it is technically one of the best coins I have seen. I don’t give you all enough credit - AE has one of the best and more diverse set of tools for all languages and the level of commitment done on the tools are amazing, the fact that I struggle to find small omissions in the tools to complain about is quite impressive and that is why I focus on those things with a passion. I imagine if I can’t find any more omissions then this product will be perfect!

Please do not misunderstand my aggresiveness with apathy, I only insist because I care about AE, and I care a lot.

4 Likes
#33

I think we are all in the same boat in this regards. I hope that at some point of time we will figure out a way how to deal with governance.

governance IMO is one of the most difficult topics. this isn’t necessarily blockchain related. I understand your concerns and I know that you care about AE because otherwise you would have left long time ago.

honestly I think at this moment of time we aren’t at the position where we want to be. there isn’t much traction yet and many people wouldn’t participate in a vote - regardless what topic. we need to spread the word about aeternity, build a strong community and then figure out how we deal with governance. for the moment we have to trust the core devs that they know what they do and what is important.

I for myself hope that we will be able to show the world in the next weeks and months how powerful aeternity is. we need to show the world that we have the best state channel implementation out there and attract lots of new people to jump in. superhero.com is surely a great start! really curious how this evolves =)

afterwards I personally would like to see a vote on two things:

  • ANT (aeternity native tokens)
    • oh man we have the best state channel implementation out there and we won’t be able to use tokens within the channels because tokens currently need to be created using smart contracts. we need to be able to deposit and withdraw ANTs in/from state channels! => we should discuss about the “state of the art” token standard(s) that are required to serve all/most usecases
  • registrars for domains to be able to create and sell subdomains

I think what @yani.chain would like to see is such kind of activities. we cannot build a community and complain about missing governance rules if there is no engagement and when there are no useful suggestions coming from all of us.

on the other hand I think we should open a thread about the vision of aeternity:

  • what do we expect?
  • what features are missing?
  • what open topics have high priority and what topics not?

@Kryztoval don’t get me wrong. but most things I heard from you is PoW vs PoS. is this really the most important topic we have? there is a lot of research going on and PoS needs to proof that it can sustain in a decentralized environment before a (serious) project should consider switching. we will see how ETH 2.0 works out. I am really fascinated how many people are involved in that project and how many people independently build on top of it, make proposals and figure out how to solve any kind of problem. what do we have at aeternity right now? AEX standards seem to have failed - at least for now. why? I don’t know … either we haven’t the people in the community that can push this forward or they are just too lazy to do so.

I think there is lots of room to grow and we all need to contribute to make aeternity successful. we cannot wait and hope that this will just be solved somehow.

wish you all a nice weekend :wink:

4 Likes
#34

I can’t agree more with you. Superhero is an amazing product. The price of AE starts to skyrocket, and the value of AE will gradually reflect to the price. In the near future, superhero may become a dazzling star in the blockchain industry.

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#35

I like your idea about having a thread about the vision for aeternity, great idea.

Also think superhero has lots of latent potential and it has only just launched, it being opensource i think a lot of people will think of things they can program and onboard and it will happen.

With regards to pos vs pow, im on the fence really, i dont mind either way but i still feel we need to get a way of rewarding holders firstly and secondly easing selling pressure

1 Like
#36

非常高兴能看到您的回复，暂且称之为|“您”！首先说下，为什么大家不喜欢在中文社区发言？①中文社区的管理员，大家都不喜欢，前段时间应该好多人开始抵制他。②中文社区中微信群、QQ群以及微博超话应该没有人或者只有一两人在发言。③我一直以为，团队应该也这样认为吧，中国社区应该是AE最大的社区，如果都在说英语（我英语也挺好的），给人的感觉就是：托！
第二个问题：关于你说的如果你不喜欢AE，可以卖出AE！我暂且这么理解，可能理解不对。AE这个项目应该是有团队和社区组成，而非团队一言堂。AE的启动应该是通过ICO集资的，而非是团队成员

AUTOTRANSLATION:

I’m very happy to see your reply, let’s call it “” you "for now! First of all, why do n’t you like to speak in the Chinese community? ① The administrator of the Chinese community doesn’t like it. A lot of people should resist him some time ago. ②No one or only one or two people should speak in the WeChat group, QQ group and Weibo super talk in the Chinese community. ③ I always thought that the team should think so. The Chinese community should be the largest community in AE. If they all speak English (my English is also very good), the feeling is: trust! Second question: Regarding what you said, if you don’t like AE, you can sell AE! I understand this for the time being, it may be wrong. The AE project should be made up of teams and communities, not teams. The launch of AE should be funded through ICO, not a team member

#37

I’m also really looking forward to this. @marco.chain would be nice to get this discussion started somehow. Can’t do it myself due to limited technical understanding.

#38

well I think at first we should make state channels easily usable for every “outside” developer that discovers æternity and wants to play around with it. I think we still don’t have all tools / tutorials in place that allows everybody to easily jump in.

before that ANTs aren’t really necessary (also we could observe the space and see what different kind of token standards are being created and needed). ANTs should cover as much usecases as possible so that smart contract based tokens only need to be developed if there is a specific usecase which requires certain functionalities that the regular ANT cannot cover.

the problem with smart contract based tokens (like AEX-9 e.g. proposes) is that they cannot be transferred into our layer1 state channel implementation. this means that those tokens can only be traded on-chain.

without ANT support we then end up doing the same stuff as Ethereum folks.

but again I want to point out that we should first focus on getting “normal” state channels implementations out there and make them possible to use. in best case we will also be able to provide tools to allow state channel interactions on mobile-devices. we better focus on that first before digging into ANTs

1 Like
#39

I don’t get you wrong. no PoW vs PoS is not the point at all. the point is the invisible power that was unilaterally given to miners while there is no real power on the hands of holders at this time. As yani said:it is up to miners whether or not they chose to support the changes. not to the holders. and it is up to the foundation or the core team what changes to implement, not to the holders. Since we can’t get more value out of holding, and no power, why would we expect miners to not sell immediately? Yeah, that’s the whole point. not the most important one. but one easy to explain that pinpoints all the flaws in the current way of doing things. Am I gonna sell my Ae? no. If this ship goes down I go down with it, but I really want to see it succeed.

I like how more people are jumping over and talking about what they want to see done, what they would like to see implemented. Reminds me of the website where people voted on the things they would want to see implemented and the things with most votes were considered for implementation.

Speaking freely, energi on their Gen 3 literally took ethereum 1.0 core and made it masternode and stake network. Interesting implementation but also not without its issues. moving from btc to ethereum caused them a bunch of problems, and they even blocked transfers to exchanges for 2 months. and right now exchanges were requested to wait 5000 confirmation before allowing to sell. at 1 minute per block that’s a long long time. in comparison to those blockchain I have never seen aeternity blockchain having to be completely resync’ed, restarted, delayed, etc. and having made the middleware the stability of the node is surprising, I only have 3 blocks that were spli chained in the history of my indexing.

Maybe a site where you get tokens monthly relative to the ae you hold and that you can use to vote for your favorite feature request is a better idea than having polls? Could this be an interesting site?

2 Likes
#40

Seems like, finally, an initiative is being made to answer once and for all my original question. For anyone interested or watchind this thread please go visit the new one!

This looks really promising.

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#41

Everyone, go vote and be active, or forever hold your peace :smile:

3 Likes